Ohio Pisses Off Over 1.2 Billion People With Outsourcing Ban
For computer work done on the cheap, India is the best place to look for the IT man or woman of your dreams. They can get the job done at a fraction of what it would cost to hire an American IT technician. Thus, outsourcing IT projects to India has become commonplace in the United States. The state of Ohio, however, is aiming to put an end to the outsourcing of IT to offshore locations by banning it at the state-level.
Ohio's decision to ban the outsourcing of technology to offshore locations is likely to go over well with the 10.4 percent of Ohioans who find themselves unemployed. It doesn't sit too well with India, however, whose software body has deemed it "electoral rhetoric" that will be counterproductive.
The decision to ban the outsourcing of services paid for with state dollars was made by an executive order by Governor Ted Strickland in August. It was a response to the controversy that surfaced in recent months about call-center work from an $11 million appliance rebate program funded by federal stimulus dollars that was outsourced to El Salvador.
Many IT companies in India, such as Infosys, the country's second largest software exporter by revenue, and their larger rival Tata Consultancy Services, get more than half of their revenue from the United States. It wasn't clear, however, the total government orders from the state of Ohio.
The message that Ohio's decision is sending out is also a concern to Indian technology companies, who would understandably fear for their livelihoods should this become a trend in other states.
Comments
No, India is the best place to look for workers to fumble whatever you need done. Do you have any idea how many projects they've run into the ground, ruined, destroyed, or caused to cost nearly three times as much of company "black budget" to clean up and get running? I know American people who make bank cleaning up outsourced work. Too bad they have to waste so much time doing that, when an American could have done it right the first time.
India is also the "BEST" at monopolizing jobs in the USA, hiring only their own race, and using any dishonest tactics, corruption and bribery to work in the USA.
Why does walking into pretty much any IT office nowadays feel like the entire workforce is from India? What happens to all our MIS, Comp Sci grads? I hardly see them anymore on entry level positions, I only see those from India occupying a VAST majority of skilled IT jobs.
Good luck if you are not the 'right nationality', not willing to be a cheap contractor but want a permanent job and starting from scratch.
I guess the Indian BPO's will need to upgrade their skills and prices structure to compensate for the loss of customers who are unwilling to hire them.
Hey, Meg Whitman, are you getting this?
"They can get the job done at a fraction of what it would cost to hire an American IT technician"
Oh really? How about that HCL work on Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner? You know - the work done by Indian that THE FAA REFUSED TO APPROVE. In fact, FAA told Boeing to stop using HCL the work was so bad.
The long list of failed projects and companies who sent work to India goes on and on and on.
India is a big hye machine, but when it comes to delivery, they can't.
Companies ruined or almost ruined by India, Inc.:
PeopleSoft, Sun Micro, Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli - head, closed, turned into a shopping mall), Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired), Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired), MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled), Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned), Apple R&D CLOSED in India in 2006, ComAir reservation system, Boeing Dreamliner ILS and collision detection software (written by HCL), Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers), Dell, United, Delta call centers (closed in India because Premji's conmen don't even know how to use telephones, let alone computers), HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006), AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009), State of Indiana $867 billion FAILED IBM project, World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data). I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers.
To #3,
"I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers."
And yet you fail to provide a single source to back your claims. As a matter of fact, I googled "Alukah Kamar" and all I found was a Youtube video made by a Pakistani and a comment exactly the same as your's on a Pakistani forum. That clears all doubts about your nationality and your true motives to post here.
As for the HCL work on Boeing 787 Dreamliner, do a bit of research rather than copy-pasting from Pakistani forums:
Firstly, any reports of HCL's poor performance is only limited to the blogosphere where various so-called "pundits" have been speculating on reasons behind the delay in 787 Dreamliner.
Secondly, just one year back, HCL Technology received "Gold Performance Excellence Award" from Boeing -
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS141388+12-Feb-2009+MW20090212
Thirdly, FAA refused to certify the work done by HCL not because the work was bad, but because HCL was not made sufficiently aware of FAA guidelines. Give me one credible source where the FAA told Boeing to cancel its relationship with HCL.
Fourthly, and finally, Boeing still has an extensive relationship with HCL and recently opened a joint research center with the Indian company --
http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/HCL_Technologies_unveils_CoE_with_Boeing-nid-66712.html
And forget HCL, do a bit of research on Boeing's successful collaboration with another Indian firm - TCS.
#3 Dont post nonsense
http://about.skype.com/press/2010/07/madhu_yarlagadda.html
Ad hominem attacks on another poster prove nothing, but what do we expect from someone fighting on the side of India, the inventor of the caste system (the ultimate ad hominem put-down)? The facts have been rolling in for a decade. Most outsourcing efforts to India contain massive frustrations and don't deliver the cost savings that were promised. Many companies try to hide these failures because admitting them makes their managers look bad, but enough have leaked out to sketch a clear trend. The party is winding down for India, Inc. Not altogether over - it didn't begin overnight, it won't end overnight either. But change is definitely in the air, and it's not just the coming autumn.
How many Indians have died for that American freedom they think they're entitled? Anyone ever been to India? They force their own into sewers called untouchables. They sell their children to foreign sex tourists. They still crap in outhouses.
This is a matter of Ohio state security. Remember 9/11.
#4 is right , and there are facts to back it up. #3 is just somebody damn jealous of the Indian success story or somebody who didnt perform his job well and got laid off.
I’ll admit to questions existing around the veracity of #3’s remarks, but to allude that outsourcing is a product of layoff for poor performance is putting the cart before the horse.
#6, that's what Indians always say. But the facts are otherwise.
http://www.cioupdate.com/features/article.php/3900941/Traditional-Offshore-Outsourcing-on-the-Skids.htm
http://www.cio.com/article/607913/Rural_Outsourcing_Why_It_x2019_s_Better_in_Des_Moines
Face it, "India Shining" as the "brainbox" of the world was a management fad that has now begun to fade. Too many oopses. Too many people know, even though most of them don't want to talk about it on the record.
Here's one example: offshoring to India scrambled and lost people's medical records.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-pacificare-unitedhealth-20100908,0,6380098.story
Our soldiers and Prez is comin'.
We want to be on our own.
This summer I hear the drummin'.
Ten four not working in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it.
Outsourcing killed the America dream
Should have been stopped long ago.
What if you knew that Congress passed laws for corporate greed
Replacing US talent exclusively with foreign corporate visa workers?
How can Congress lie when America knows?
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
Wish it ain't true, but the proof is in plain sight.
Gotta get down to it.
Outsourcing killed the American dream
Should have been stopped long ago.
What if you knew that Congress knew this all along
Corrupt politicians taking corporate bribes and
telling their voters to just eat cake while
Their jobs, homes, healthcare, life savings, and more are gone
How can Congress lie when America knows?
Our soldiers and Prez is comin'.
We want to be on our own.
This summer I hear the drummin'.
Ten Four not working in Ohio.
Ten Four not working in Ohio.
Ten Four not working in Ohio.
Ten Four not working in Ohio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_klLYOg1feY
If the work done by Indians and/or Indian companies is so bad, then why worry about this whole issue of 'offshoring' and pass such protectionist and retarded laws? Why not simply let the market forces and competition decide this? For if there is any shred of truth in the claims of such failed and bad jobs done by Indian companies, then market forces will automatically stop work being offshored to India.
The fact is, the US had no problems with open and 'free trade' for as long as they were the beneficiaries of it. But now when countries such as India are finally getting their due, the same champions of 'free trade' have a problem with it. Nothing but cheap politics and hypocrisy at play here.
But if you read the links posted and original news report, you'll see that market forces ARE coming into play. And, Gov. Strickland gave as a partial justification the problems and service levels that outsourcing affords. Government needs executive orders so that people don't fumble around and waste public money. They might not have heard about the problems and sign a big contract, and Strickland wants to prevent that.
how can India be reponsible for mistaken priorities adapted by American State and they are bleeding because of their wrong prorities and bad friend ship in south east asia. Now it is high time for USA to wake up and start to build trust amoung neutral countries like India. Please don't play the game for lobby(china). Play the game with the spirit of the game. India can also think in the same lines and can behave pragmatically by banning importing products produced from other countries.
Game? Thanks to corporate greed, Congress passed egregious laws that result in Americans losing their jobs, homes, healthcare, life savings, and much more.
By calling this a game, you insult to millions of Americans who lost their jobs due to outsourcing. Certainly 10.4% of Ohio residents are not thinking this is a game.
Protectionist? The same old whine, those stupid Americans keep getting in our way. * WE, the best and brighest, deserve to replace YOU and get a free ride in YOUR country - at YOUR expense.*
Certainly, India's citizens don't like this - that's why India locked down its doors to its foreign workers from China and other Asian workers.
I applaud your government for taking care of its own citizens. Sadly, nothing like this can happen in the USA until we vote out our corrupt special interest politicans.
It is high time best India's outsourcing staff, H-1b and L-1 visa workers are held accountable for your role in ruining the lives of the stupid Americans you replaced. Try the Golden Rule for a change.
Pisses off 1.2 billion Indians? lol, I doubt if other than a few IT companies and their employees, anybody has even heard of Ohio, much less care about what laws Ohio passes.
what american thinks that they will ban indian trade and then beg for its support in WTO.
There are protectionist laws passed all over the world and, based on admittedly simplistic information gathering, India is no stranger to protectionism itself. Add to it India Inc.’s long history of marching in step with US IT companies to sell the fallacy of labor shortage, and I have to find Nasscom’s posturing rather hypocritical. Given the lack of impact that this bill (largely populist posturing itself) will have on them, this sounds about like if the NRA were to lobby for individuals’ rights to own nuclear weapons—not because it will have impact but to draw a line in the sand at anything that could lead in a direction they don’t like.
There was a line in another article from an executive of one of the Nasscomers that is priceless, "...because they need skilled U.S. workers for high-end work that requires a local presence." Since when? These companies do everything they can to not use local workers and now they claim to be worried about this leading to not being able to hire them.
My suggestion: Raise the H1-B fees to closer to $10K plus annual fees for extensions (if they do not exist) for all such visas (Intel, MSFT, etc. included). Since this visa is about filling a shortage, it’s a minor inconvenience vs. not having the skillset at all. Additionally, since these employees are paid at or over market average in high-skill, high-demand jobs, this still only represents a small fraction of the near-to-over six figure salary they are already willing to pay for this talent.
As to quality, I’ve personally seen and heard good and bad results from IT groups on both sides of the Pacific. All in all, logic and personal experience tell me that the results from local workers are at least somewhat superior to those of India. On the logical side, there is a language barrier which does not aid in communicating the ideas in the first place. Also, it is far more plausible that the average ability level is higher in the US. Please note, I said average. I’ve worked with some brilliant Indians and are less capable—Americans, too.
But back to the premise. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_India), as of 2008 1/3 of India was illiterate with only 7% total graduating from high school. I raise this not to cast aspersions on Indians but to point out that for various reasons only a small fraction of the population ever has opportunity to really ever train for and attain high-skill jobs. Hence, while the total population is 3-4 times that of the US, the skill pool from which the nation draws is far smaller than that of the US, yet seems to provide as many or more workers in the IT field.
Didn't stop the British from conquering them...
What pack of lies and propaganda! American companies and state governments have been repeatedly raped by the IOR (India Outsourcing Regime). With an avg. IQ of 81, and only 31% of its people with access to toilets, India is the last place we should be sending our IT work.
"how can India be reponsible for mistaken priorities adapted by American State and they are bleeding because of their wrong prorities and bad friend ship in south east asia."
No, it's because INDIAN CONMEN AT IBM LIED TO THE STATE OF OHIO AND PROMISED THEY COULD DO THE JOB WHEN THEY COULDN'T.
In USA we have a legal concept called misrepresenation. If you lie to someone about your skills saying you can do a job but you can't, you're guilty. Politicians have no way of knowing a name like IBM is full of Indiots lying through their teeth. Now IBM is getting rightly sued and India's face has rotten egg all over it. Face it India - you failed AGAIN!
"Now it is high time for USA to wake up and start to build trust amoung neutral countries like India."
India is not a neutral country. It is a Soviet Ally and deceiving the USA in order to build up its economy and industry which it needs first in order to build up its military. Indians hate white people because of Britain. We're not stupid you know.
"India can also think in the same lines and can behave pragmatically by banning importing products produced from other countries."
Go ahead. American companies don't need India. You don't buy our stuff anyway. And you can't ban our products. Where are you going to get a Mac to do your outsourcing on if you ban our products. You already put 200% auto tarriffs on our cars there so who cares. You need USA at lot more than we need you.
How's this:
http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=86852
http://www.mackb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/mac-uk/10879/Quark-CEO-resigns
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54970
And here's what Kamar did to Quark's business:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2005/09/01/8356481/index.htm
Don't forget that the 787 was delayed because the Rolls Royce engines weren't ready:
http://in.reuters.com/article/idINSGE67Q06R20100827
And why weren't they ready? Because Rolls had outsourced to India of course!
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/india-aerospace-outsourcing-rolls-sets-up-a-subsidiary-01538/
Sorry, but you've just been owned.
HCL also refuses to pay its people.
http://www.sapfans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=303573
What a bunch of slave trading scumbags.
Here's proof HCL got fired from Boeing and caused 787's delays:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/is-the-boeing-787s-electrical-system-working/19135085/
I have to agree with the comment in one of the posts indicating that if Indian companies are producing junk then the free market will decide this. It's definitely true that not all Indian software developers are talented, but neither are all of the US developers. There are plenty of failures by US workers too. I am Indian, and I think that Indians should try and understand the perspective of US workers. We are now in a fiercely competitive world. The bottom line is excellence at a low cost. I think Indians should take it on themselves to show that they are worthy of the job. I think we should ask ourselves why India never places at the top of any global programming contest? Why are no American or European students applying to the Indian Institute of Technology? Why is there not a SINGLE software product created by an Indian company? We have become a bunch of luggage carrying coolies for Western companies. This is a horrible business model and I promise you that this model will hit a dead end soon. Japanese cars were considered absolute junk in the 60s and 70s, but NOW no one even questions Japanese quality. Same thing goes for Korean products. I think we Indians really need to learn some lessons and we should not be complacent. US workers have every right to point out our mistakes. In fact WE should spot our own mistakes BEFORE they do. My 2 cents.
I've worked with a lot of fabulous people over the years. They've come from every corner of the world. There's no particular color of genius. Everyone has a shot at being brilliant.
I've worked with out-sourced organizations. The quality problem is a problem of self interest, not resources.
By out-sourcing work, the enterprise essentially says that they don't want to worry about something anymore. Whatever it was, they've said that they would rather buy it than make it. They put their faith in the idea that somebody else can do it better and for less.
Sometimes it works just fine.
That's a bit like saying that some politicians have the best interests of the people at heart.
Too late, we find out that others might not have our best interests in mind. Maybe they want money more than they care about their reputation. Maybe they want power more than they want their integrity. Maybe they are human and have their own interests in mind. Whatever it is, this is not an Indian issue.
About Ohio, I see a little self interest from each of the parties involved. The guys that paid for the original project thought they were getting a great deal, until they realized that they had just exported all those jobs. And the politician pushing the law was likely more worried about scoring a political point than the numerous working projects the law would kill.
I've worked with HCL. They don't have a stable of experts. They hire people, just like you and I and they put them to work. How they work and how well they work and the quality of the products they produce is just as variable as any similar organization. If you ask them to make a thing, they do their best to make a thing.
If you don't know what you're asking for, you'll still get a thing.
If they don't know what you're asking for, you'll still get a thing.
So you had better ask for the right thing, in the right way and you had better make sure that they know what you're asking for and how to do it the right way. You need to understand what you wanted, how it was made and what you got.
This is exactly the responsibility that corporations abdicate when they out-source their work. Companies like Boeing don't want to be technology companies. They want to focus on their core. They make arrangements for somebody else to take care of their most critical systems, with the absurd belief that the engaged parties will take on greater ownership than themselves.
They entered into an agreement with somebody that has never done it to do it better. Ridiculous, but maybe not the entire story. They entered into the agreement because it seemed like a good idea to save money on technology.
Sometimes it works just fine. Sometimes it doesn't.
If the country of India is so fast growing with so much people power and resources to export etc. Why are their people living in slum conditions with barefeet walking through sewers, 16 to one room, no clean place to go the bathroom, no clean water?????
Can someone explain that mystery to me???
The countries GDP is 1.31 TRILLION DOLLARS---WHERE IS ALL THAT MONEY GOING. I see slums with people living in corrugated shacks they made themselves.
They government does not provide, infrastructure, no decent health care, nor housing, or jobs, or food.
Where is the money going???
The government is corrupt, and if they can't help their own people using the money they make to building housing etc. Then why should we send jobs over there with over 8 percent unemployment here.
It's not the US fault that these countries are notoriously CORRUPT. There is only so much we can do, and if you say anything they go crazy because they like to keep the lie going. Everyone has to be too politically correct these days no one is held accountable for anything anymore.
Corruption its an evil thing!!
The Indian economy continues to face the problem of an underground economy with a 2006 estimate by the Swiss Banking Association suggesting that India topped the worldwide list for black money with almost $1,456 billion stashed in Swiss banks. This amounts to 13 times the country's total external debt.[174][175] (Wikipedia)